tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post8379048696883726217..comments2023-06-21T10:52:34.013-04:00Comments on Jeremy Rosen's Blog: Greek WisdomAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17043970242427877089noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-42464687966000575952012-01-10T14:27:42.601-05:002012-01-10T14:27:42.601-05:00Thank you Jeremy for clarifying the subject. I lo...Thank you Jeremy for clarifying the subject. I look forward to reading Marc Shapiro and updating my information. It's hard to let go of the Litvak upbringing.Leilanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-89139201367459058722012-01-09T13:55:07.990-05:002012-01-09T13:55:07.990-05:00In theory Leila is right. After all Moses Mendleso...In theory Leila is right. After all Moses Mendlesohn argued this in 'Jerusalem.' But his understanding of Dogma was based on a Christian set formulation of certain propositions one had to attest to in order to be Christian going back to the Council of Nicea. We have no such exact equivalent in Judaism. There is no formulaic definition of God beyond 'One', no equivalent of the Trinitarian definition that must be 'beilieved.' <br /><br />However, Adam is right in the sense that nowadays, since Medieval times, the 13 Principles of Faith are treated as Dogma even if this was not the intention of Maimonides and as Marc Shapiro has amply researched and illustrated in his books on the subject.Rabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-45706867411881086302012-01-09T10:10:55.982-05:002012-01-09T10:10:55.982-05:00Leila,
> lack of dogma therein
What on earth ...Leila,<br /><br />> lack of dogma therein<br /><br />What on earth do you mean by this?Adamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-75852920475635567652012-01-09T07:33:21.148-05:002012-01-09T07:33:21.148-05:00Education is a wonderful thing. The definition of...Education is a wonderful thing. The definition of education is harder to examine. I would agree with most of what was said, Jeremy but am haunted by pictures of so-called education in madrassas where the Koran is taught as a breeding ground for hatred. I discount the twerps in Israel who have the gall to spit and bully because I feel their moment will be short.<br /><br />The classical languages in general provide beauty and discipline and the loss of Latin and Greek in most schools in the UK has not added value to the educational system. What I love about Judaism and the study of biblical and rabbinic texts is the ability to question and the lack of dogma therein.Leilanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-50295760721189118732012-01-08T21:06:38.904-05:002012-01-08T21:06:38.904-05:00Adam:
The fact is that halacha itself does indeed ...Adam:<br />The fact is that halacha itself does indeed allow for this constant revision although sadly at this stage the only place one sees it happening creatively and positively is in medical matters. The fault sadly is not the system as much as the people who applying it and are allowing meta halachic considerations to cause a sort of halachic log jam. <br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-43501998076269349052012-01-08T19:39:38.432-05:002012-01-08T19:39:38.432-05:00> including the categories you
> mentioned, ...> including the categories you<br />> mentioned, for its own sake,<br />> regardless of the conclusions at<br />> any stage ( and given that in all<br />> disciplines what is accepted at one<br />> moment will be rejected at another).<br /><br />This too is an important point. These disciplines are able to assimilate new information and revise earlier conclusions. Built in is the constant reevaluation and reassessment of earlier certainties. I do not see the same readiness to incorporate new information and understandings in our institutions of learning.Adamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-30791131659770407852012-01-08T16:26:33.395-05:002012-01-08T16:26:33.395-05:00Adam:
Thats such an important issue that it requi...Adam:<br /><br />Thats such an important issue that it requires a full article of its own to do it justice and I will get round to it.<br /><br />But in the meantime I believe all knowledge should be pursued including the categories you mentioned, for its own sake, regardless of the conclusions at any stage ( and given that in all disciplines what is accepted at one moment will be rejected at another). They all have value in helping humans cope with the complexities of life. I like Jay Goulds writings very much and I used to agree with his Non Overlapping Magisteria but the fact is there are moments of overlapping and I do not believe they can be avoided. The challenge is to retain ones loyalty to one or the other through such situations and not assume one always has to make a final and irrevocable choice. After all Torah itself puts Life above most of its laws and teaches us that where they conflict we lay aside one for the sake of the other. I prefer Peter Lipton's theory of Immersion, that we are all immersed to a greater or lesser degree in different cultures, traditions and areas of expertise and the extent of our immersion decides the extent of the influence of each culture (including of course the religious). Ignorance is dangerous. <br /><br />My "compartmentalism" is a way of allowing for contradictions, conflicts and inconsistencies while retaining that which we feel to be beneficial without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.<br /><br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-54896871674905830412012-01-08T10:40:33.717-05:002012-01-08T10:40:33.717-05:00You've touched on a very important topic: the ...You've touched on a very important topic: the interface between tradition and modern knowledge. By and large, what you describe is a form of compartmentalism, in which the two realms are handled independently (ala Gould). That's ok for using telephones or flying in 'planes, which are relatively neutral activities.<br /><br />What's more interesting, and which you didn't really address, is the question of how to handle cases where the two domains may give different answers. How do we handle, say, changes in political theory, archeological findings, paleontology, psychology, geology, cosmology, philology, anthropology, sociology, and the more generally, the question of epistemology?<br /><br />If all knowledge and phenomena all,<br />ultimately, derive from the same source (something like hakol nitneh m'ay roeh echad comes to mind), then don't all these other disciplines have value, and shouldn't there be a better effort to use them in our understanding of Torah and our tradition?<br /><br />Could you address the differences between Torah I'm Derech Eretz and<br />Torah Umada?Adamnoreply@blogger.com