tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post7125440783054207510..comments2023-06-21T10:52:34.013-04:00Comments on Jeremy Rosen's Blog: Who is Jesus?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17043970242427877089noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-41833383040118018822012-01-20T00:58:23.978-05:002012-01-20T00:58:23.978-05:00Josh:
I agree with your general premise that we s...Josh:<br /><br />I agree with your general premise that we should behave in the correct way, follow our tradition regardless of what non-Jews think of us. The only "slightly" I was referring to was the benefit Israel derives from having a powerful non-Jewish lobby in Washington actively campaigning for it at a time when there is so much pressure the other way.<br /><br />History has plenty of examples on non-Jews helping us for whom we have been most grateful, Cyrus for letting the Jews return, Alexander for not trying to impose Greek culture on us, Julian for restoring Jewish rights in Eretz Yisrael, Cromwell (himself a very frum Christian) for allowing Jews to return to Britain, the Balfour Declaration even Truman for voting for the State.<br /><br />And if you look at Devarim 4.6. you will see that the Torah itself considers it important that we receive approval of our ways from non Jews. I fear the expectation that that particular pasuk hopes for, no longer holds true.<br /><br />We are indeed responsible for doing what we can for our own fate. We cannot rely on miracles. We must not forget that twice before the Almighty Hid His Face and we lost our land.<br /><br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-5328010661333126942012-01-16T09:29:47.769-05:002012-01-16T09:29:47.769-05:00Leila:
Yes HM was a gentle but sharp man. Sad loss...Leila:<br />Yes HM was a gentle but sharp man. Sad loss.<br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-6719576972789960342012-01-15T16:01:38.969-05:002012-01-15T16:01:38.969-05:00Answer to R' J's reply:
Sure, let's ha...Answer to R' J's reply:<br />Sure, let's have friends - even goyim, but don't get into bed with them, or their god (i.e. Jesus). If you agree that Pas Akum threatens intermarriage (ain't that the reason our sagesw give?), just imagine what polishing Jesus' image does.<br />To what part of the Trojan Horse do you "slightly" not agree. (If one's unmarried daughter came home "slightly" pregnant would that be better or different than not so slightly pregnant?) A Trojan Horse is what it is, as its own complete entity. Evangelical Christians want Jewish souls; Mormons still baptize Jews in abstentia (Beck is a Mormon). A rabbi who promotes Jesus at any level gives credibility to Christianity and that credibility is a slippery slope.<br />By the way, In this weeks Parsha , Shemos, did the enslaving Pharoah's like or hate the Hebrews? Did it matter in the end? Did Haman like or hate the Jews? Did it matter in the end? Did Hitler like or hate the Jews? Did he matter in the end? The Czar -Did he like or hate the Jews? Did it matter? Where did these characters and the likes of them through out history ultimately wind up?<br />The Holocaust happened only recently, 70 years ago; essentially the entire world (certainly Europe) abetted the destruction of the Jews (How about Pres Roosevelt sending the Ship St. Louis back for the destruction of the escaping Jews?). They hated us then. Do you really believe something has happened since then that has changed their attitude in reality? Don't deceive yourself, the Jew is still hated; a repeat Holocaust is always a potential (Can you believe that as of this moment, Iran with its blatant threat of wiping out Israel, is still building a nuclear weapon?)<br />Somehow, I don't think that being hated by the goyim really matters; or being liked by goyim who want to consume your yiddisher soul really is a difference. In fact, from a spiritual, theological point of view the Hitlers and Hamans are a bit more benign: they destroy one's Jewish body, the yiddisher soul lives on forever. On the other hand, the Jew who gives up his soul is lost forever.<br />The Jew does not really need "friends". The Jew needs God (not Jesus), and the Jew needs to follow God's Torah; and the Jew needs the power through military might to gain the nations' respect, and to help demonstrate the truth of the Jewish Torah so that all the nations will come to the true God. Then those who bless the Jew will themselves be blessed. Somehow, I believe that this is genuine Jewish philosophy.<br />Until then,I maintain my warning: Beware the Trojan Horse of those who seek the Jewish soul!<br />JoshJoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13454786513263332188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-65726049359576772022012-01-15T08:46:11.764-05:002012-01-15T08:46:11.764-05:00Josh:
Interesting angle. I slightly disagree abou...Josh:<br /><br />Interesting angle. I slightly disagree about the Trojan Horse. Yes theologically you are absolutely right. The Evangelicals look forward to the Second Coming and Rapture and that requires a sort of "Ethnic Cleansing" or non Christians in the battle between Gog and Magog<br /><br /> at Armageddon or Megiddo. And we should not be encouraging that at all. But politically Israel is so hated irrationally and viscerally by so many in the world today I believe having any friends be they Evangelicals, Hindu or Tea Part loonies is no bad thing under present circumstances. <br /><br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-13809681741891818652012-01-15T08:45:05.627-05:002012-01-15T08:45:05.627-05:00David:
Welcome and thanks for contributing to the ...David:<br />Welcome and thanks for contributing to the discussion! The fact is that we can only try to reconstruct or imagine a historical Jesus. If one is predisposed to do so because of a Christian commitment I can accept that as easily as I can accepting Moses as a historical Jew. But if like me you are a natural born/educated sceptic with no predisposition to accept Christianity , I see no good reason, nor any objective empirical evidence to accept a myth even if a good theory could explain its possible origins. <br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-29489604658534851192012-01-15T08:44:06.285-05:002012-01-15T08:44:06.285-05:00Anonymous:
Certainly Secular Zionism believed it w...Anonymous:<br />Certainly Secular Zionism believed it was ushering in a new just socialist era, a repudiation of the Ghetto but precisely for that reason they refused to give it any religious association. On the other hand Religious Zionists still call the founding of the State "Reyshit Geulah" the beginning of Messianic redemption. Of course this is why the Satmar chassidim and their looney fringe Neturei Karta claim that Zionism is an arrogant attempt to take over God's role in deciding when the Messiah will come (not to mention Chabad's insistence mainly in Israel that the late Rebbe was/is the Messisah!!!). <br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-88012221974692009292012-01-14T20:16:29.640-05:002012-01-14T20:16:29.640-05:00Shmuely Boteach is just one more Jewish fool to fa...Shmuely Boteach is just one more Jewish fool to fall into the Trojan Horse trap of the likes of Glenn Beck, John Hagee,and others of today's evangelicals. R'Riskin was another popular Jewish personality to recently praise "Rabbi" Jesus, despite, after the fact, denials. (What was he doing at some Evangelical meeting talking Jesus anyway?)<br />Just imagine the glee and envy the Crusaders, Inqisitors, Martin Luther, and the vast other antisemitic personalties who sought to get the Jews to convert to their Jesus, now feel by seeing the inroads made with just a little cash and lovin by present day evangelical Christians. <br />Popular Jewish personalities are "cleaning up" and touting Jesus. Imagine what that can do to Jews with a bit of uncertainty or shaky grounding. (not to mention what it can do to the Jew who falls in love with a Christian and the raging hormones are just looking for a way "in."<br />("Hey, Shmuely Boteach 'kashered' Jesus; why can't I?" [listen to those hormones go])<br />Evangelical Christian pro Israel love of Jews is a Trojan Horse. BEWARE!!!<br />JOSHJoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13454786513263332188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-51551651359776090402012-01-14T04:59:09.343-05:002012-01-14T04:59:09.343-05:00I loved this blog, Jeremy - it was erudite and sti...I loved this blog, Jeremy - it was erudite and stimulating but more than this it reminded me of Hymie Maccoby with whom we had mutual friends. Whenever I came up with anything I thought was relevant and interesting he made ash un blotte of me and my theories. I loved it. How wonderful to remember him. Thank you.Leilanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-84624661997018045012012-01-13T19:53:55.609-05:002012-01-13T19:53:55.609-05:00This is my first post on your blog, but, I have be...This is my first post on your blog, but, I have been a reader for awhile. Even though I'm not a Christian (and, I'm not sure how much of a Jew people would consider me, as I wasn't raised in a secular home, but, I'm interested in learning more about my roots, which is why I come to your blog, and other places about Judaism), but, I do quite like learning about ancient history, and, I find early Christianity (and that time period) quite interesting. I don't think we can just say "Jesus didn't exist" or he was "created" by various early Christian communities in antiquity, from what I've read of it, I quite like Geza Vermes take on Jesus, but, at the same time, I like what April DeConick (a great scholar on early Christianity and Gnosticism) said, which was when dealing with the Jesus, we're dealing with memories, with all the problems that it entails, so, it does take painstaking research to dig through the sources (the New Testament Gospels, plus the ones that didn't make the final cut) to give us a picture of the Jesus that walked around some 2000 years ago. <br /><br />This site has a good roundup of most, if not all, of the Historical Jesus, theories, http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html (the author of that site also has another cool site, http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/).Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-27859463579315094652012-01-13T12:09:08.323-05:002012-01-13T12:09:08.323-05:00Thank you for your very wonderful blog and insight...Thank you for your very wonderful blog and insightful commentary.<br />Very interesting idea that anybody who restores Jewish sovereignty ( a political achievement), is thereby entitled to call themselves Messiah. Would this perhaps imply that those who established the modern state of Israel are Messiahs in a sense? Or, because, political sovereignty cannot be guaranteed forever, is there no hope of a Messiah?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-74862575949417103832012-01-13T10:27:33.205-05:002012-01-13T10:27:33.205-05:00Unfortunately I have to admit we do indeed have ou...Unfortunately I have to admit we do indeed have our fanatics who denigrate non-believers, both Jewish and non-Jewish. And they do this despite all the sources that that say every human being is judged according to his or her actions. <br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-64427613181082395172012-01-13T09:04:08.013-05:002012-01-13T09:04:08.013-05:00Do you include Judaism in the religions that teach...Do you include Judaism in the religions that teach that nonbelievers are inferior subhumans and the source of most evil in our world?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com