tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post3657624180590765446..comments2023-06-21T10:52:34.013-04:00Comments on Jeremy Rosen's Blog: Presidents, Debates, and GunsAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17043970242427877089noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-9911066256237814112012-10-31T13:17:46.566-04:002012-10-31T13:17:46.566-04:00Thank you Michael, I did enjoy your articulate flo...Thank you Michael, I did enjoy your articulate flow of consciousness and even the analogy of the hooker (have been called much worse things in my life).<br />Its a real pleasure and delight to have your presence here. Though I must confess, in general I side with the well known Bon Mot that "Brevity is the Soul of Wit."<br /><br />Thank you,<br />JeremyRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-19661543963644909072012-10-31T12:38:52.930-04:002012-10-31T12:38:52.930-04:00Thanks, Shoshi. Hopefully Jeremy feels the love, t...Thanks, Shoshi. Hopefully Jeremy feels the love, too :-)Michael Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-51397209916471870312012-10-31T11:09:43.310-04:002012-10-31T11:09:43.310-04:00Amen, Michael. You make a number of substantive po...Amen, Michael. You make a number of substantive points that are not lost in the hilariousness of your comments. And point taken regarding the prostitute in church!Shoshinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-32853948229937195452012-10-30T23:49:55.921-04:002012-10-30T23:49:55.921-04:00Please forgive - didn't answer another importa...Please forgive - didn't answer another important statement from above:<br /><br />- Pinchas was a shallow shill, a "broken arrow" (look it up), a retro-fitted narrative groomed mercenary, for the rabbinate. He presents no story of an individual "on fire with the zeal for God". The fact that Torah says so b'dieved should be proof enough he wasn't. It was a classic "black ops with plausible deniability" so many cheap afternoon movies are made of; where illicit and illegal protocols of the administration mature into full flower with the exercise of extra-legal murder ordered by the top slots of the State Corporation. "Clean Hands" for Moshe, who, after all, violated the EXACT same "moral code crime" as Cozbi and Zimri, all in an explicit conspiracy to a) preserve the family power balance at the top and b) schmear Pinchas for his trouble, and memorialize and "hagiographize" the switch to his branch of the Kohanim.<br /><br />- The Sicarii (very real and very active - right now - in Mea Shearim) The problem was NOT that they were armed - the problem was that the Perushim and Tzadukim were not. The problem was, like "Old Europe" Rome had forbidden the carrying of weapons to protect its EMPIRE by pacifying its conquests - and therefore in 70 CE like in in 2012 CE "when the government bans guns from citizens then only criminals will have guns". Secondly, the Second Commonwealth, like in many ways today's government, though moreso, did NOT protect the average Jew ( read: Citizen). EVEN and ESPECIALLY The Sanhedrin (Congress and The Supreme Court) shrank in cowardice from (depending on who you read) prosecuting Herod or Yannai for murder under respondat superior. Disarmed law abiding Citizens; Criminals armed and running amok; two-faced sycophantic pusillanimous pols; and a distant, foreign, disdainful, military seat of true civil power. THAT is why Bais Sheni fell and why only criminals flourished. Sound familiar?<br /><br />Michael Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-29102611068159753282012-10-30T23:01:27.941-04:002012-10-30T23:01:27.941-04:00Part II:
And finally, in case you suspect that I ...Part II:<br /><br />And finally, in case you suspect that I am Jeremy's long lost brother-from-another-mother, let me DC al Coda by reiterating that an EMPOWERED instead of COWERED third estate as an unwritten balancing chamber [pun intended] of government pasted directly, if later, into the exact same document that states that no man, nor institution, short of God Himself, can legally disturb my peace, disarm me of my individuality, my right to exist, prosper, and seek my happiness, without due and proper cause and proven to a jury of my peers is just as much a protection of individual freedom in this country as "silly" words like the right of Habeus Corpus, The Prohibition against Posse Commitatus, and the right of every naturalized or natural non-felonious citizen to vote.<br /><br />Arms SHOULD be regulated - just as - to use a phrase from above - cars. You need to buy it legally, care for it properly, answer for its dangerous, irresponsible, or illicit use, and there are certain instances in which you will be deemed too dangerous, too imbecilic, or too individually unlawful to own one. <br /><br />One of the first non-physical safety rules one (should) learn as a gun owner is that it is just as important to learn how not to use, how not to turn to a weapon as it is to learn to use it properly. Simply owning a weapon makes a statement without ever having to use it.<br /><br />Your vote is a dangerous commodity to many people in power - and so it should remain - and there are many who would usurp it from you. Your wealth, honestly earned - is a tempting pie and a dangerous commodity to many people in power who would order you to work for so many shilling an hour at such and such a job you detest - and so should it remain.<br /><br />And in the final analysis, and seen from the overarching whole, the presence of weapons in the hands of a wide swathe of the Citizenry, lawfully held and used - [not insurmountable - Jeremy - so please no overwhelming military force analogies, but fearsome nonetheless - would you like your sadistic brown-shirts to kill 10,000 and suffer zero casualties, or kill 5,000 and suffer 5,000 casualties? hmm?]<br /><br />- that armed population is a tempting target and a fearsome obstacle to the enslavement of the population by "ambitious men" - and so, Please God, may it EVER remain.Michael Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-71969657751571303622012-10-30T22:50:33.272-04:002012-10-30T22:50:33.272-04:00Wow! such vitriol. Such banter. I am impressed. I ...Wow! such vitriol. Such banter. I am impressed. I don't know some of the other, obviously very important contributors in this also just as obviously long running relationship-in-print. I may just be pleased as punch to meet some of you. Maybe not. Don't know. But since I very much AM steeped in the emotive and "religious" aspects of what I wrote - much moreso, though, the political / philosophical ones - I will recapitulate by summing up some of what I've read in this tennis match that more than anything else re-verifies my mastheads.<br /><br />- Whatever you view is, you have the right to present that view here singularly because this is the USA. Francois Hollande would legislate and tax your way to (economic and therefore de facto) slavery and silence no less so than Ayman Mohammed Rabie al-Zawahiri would do it with a scimitar or a bomb in arenas that would permit it; and forwarding of Sharia law under the "deservedness" of its place in the sun in "democracies". [ see: the power locus theory of government as compared to the political spectrum theory of government]. And if you think Obama does not want to emulate the former, and Agudath Yisroel the latter, then you shouldn't be writing here.<br /><br />- TO wit, Ron Paul. Way too many paragraphs to write here. Simply, as I Jew I have the prerogative (and the religious obligation) to lobby for Israel; and the need as an American to understand why that support fails if it does, when exposed for being driven by Crony Capitalism, Baptist End-Times Conversion Hopes, Jewish Lobby Horse Trading, and Intelligence sub-farming. Besides, if I thought that subjecting myself to the Israeli Peaceniks or The Moetzet Gedolei Yisroel was going to "actualize" me as a person better than republican (with a small r) representative democracy - then why wouldn't I have made Aliyah already?<br /><br />- And speaking of Aliyah, leave Jeremy alone. The fact that a prostitute (please no offense Jeremy) shows up in church should be a good enough starting point for all the hypocrites around her. Democracy was a deformed embryo in Greece, an aasthmatic adolescent in Maritime Britain, but then died in a post-pubescent shipwreck and was born again full throated on Boston Commons. Give Jeremy credit for realizing that with his feet. So what if he is too Left for any self-respecting Libertarian? He's a bloody fascist pig compared to his former comrades in London!<br /><br />(apparently I'm too verbose - continued "on side two")Michael Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-16069075666197828662012-10-29T18:47:09.354-04:002012-10-29T18:47:09.354-04:00Shoshi:
To repeat what I said, its relative. At th...Shoshi:<br />To repeat what I said, its relative. At the point that it becomes unbearable or you find somewhere better, you move.Rabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-48682701552851700392012-10-29T18:42:13.613-04:002012-10-29T18:42:13.613-04:00Its when you are being f......d you are supposed t...Its when you are being f......d you are supposed to lie back and think of England!!!!<br /><br />What or who do Yanks think of? Obama?Rabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-15996650508473576862012-10-29T17:09:35.381-04:002012-10-29T17:09:35.381-04:00You are the one who used the word "abuse"...You are the one who used the word "abuse". But of course there are always those women who feel "they can change him". :-)Shoshinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-65396086038629773942012-10-29T17:09:03.399-04:002012-10-29T17:09:03.399-04:00Its a matter of degree surely.Its a matter of degree surely.Rabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-11131054409314931762012-10-29T15:44:56.731-04:002012-10-29T15:44:56.731-04:00Jeremy said: "I believe the preoccupation wit...Jeremy said: "I believe the preoccupation with guns is unhealthy and it offends my sensibilities ... This is indeed a debate about culture and it amuses me that it offends.."<br /><br />What a hoot. I see the same preoccupations in your posts and is amusing here too.<br /><br />In planning a utopian society I think we'd all have fun. The problem comes when the inevitable losses turn out to be our loved ones. Identifiable individuals. Each one a world, eh? Something like that. Disarmed people when attacked should lie back and think of England then? I apologize for any offense. Amusement level is high. I hope you share it.<br /><br />I think maybe given your preoccupation that you've assuming this topic is about guns. To me it's very much not about guns or knives. Or cars. It's about oppression, the value of individual lives and allowing people their autonomy and ability to value themselves (if they wish. Many appear to not.) Based on the familial experiences of the Syrian Jews in our congregation I’m guessing it’s the same with yours. If your congregants appear enthralled by guns let me suggest the infatuation is instead with life.<br /><br />Ron Paul? Israel I think would be your smallest argument. His foreign policy stance looks pretty consistent. Israel has arms. If willing, they also have Hashem (insert Lazer Brody here). Paul seems to not worry about Israel either way. I think a bigger concern would be that all those Libertarians support individual liberty, to own and carry guns (without licenses even!) for example. Please be sure to avoid New Hampshire. I'd worry about your sensibilities. In Manhattan I think you’d better keep a Hillary sticker on your bumper. You’re deep in the hive if you realize it or not. chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-46933562915312986642012-10-29T12:50:03.249-04:002012-10-29T12:50:03.249-04:00But you should not CHOOSE to pair up with someone ...But you should not CHOOSE to pair up with someone who is abusive. So continuing with the analogy, if you believe a society or government is abusive, it would be dysfunctional to choose to live in it.Shoshinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-89624361593549446172012-10-29T12:48:39.039-04:002012-10-29T12:48:39.039-04:00And sometimes they are justified in trying to stop...And sometimes they are justified in trying to stop their abuses!Rabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-86826154112799640052012-10-29T11:34:56.133-04:002012-10-29T11:34:56.133-04:00It is also true that the very things people critic...It is also true that the very things people criticize and complain about in "the person they love" are often the things that make them who they are.Shoshinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-25423754808710734522012-10-29T11:28:11.365-04:002012-10-29T11:28:11.365-04:00Chaim:
No human society is perfect. Everyone has ...Chaim:<br /><br />No human society is perfect. Everyone has its neuroses, corruptions and blind spots. On balance I prefer a more laissez faire, less controlled society which the USA was and still is, more than Europe. It is also one in which different communities tend to get on with their lives with less friction and antagonism than in Europe. As a Jew even if anti Semitism continues to exist here, it is less intrusive and obvious than in Europe. Although I have no doubt it is changing.<br /> <br />Its like the person you love. He or she will have faults and limitations. I think class and status play a far more insidious part in European life than money does here. But you make a judgment call as to where youd prefer to live and I prefer the Manhattan in the USA to Europe ( at the moment). Not sure I'd prefer Miami or in fact 90% of the rest of the USA!<br /><br />As for my USA politics ( and I cannot vote yet) it seems the one I am closest to according to a computer analysis is Ron Paul except I detest his views on Israel. And as you might know by now I mistrust all politicians. <br /> <br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-25475995610817536682012-10-29T11:27:30.569-04:002012-10-29T11:27:30.569-04:00Chaim:
My writing is of course neither strictly a...Chaim:<br /><br />My writing is of course neither strictly academic nor religious, it is an expression of the ideas that animate and interest me. I believe the preoccupation with guns is unhealthy and it offends my sensibilities which are I agree are influenced by my upbringing, religion and culture. I would not want guns in my home. This is indeed a debate about culture and it amuses me that it offends so many people to the extent that I am getting far more anger over this issue than any other one I have ever written about. That tells me that there is something very suspect and worrying about this issue.<br /> <br />You simply cannot compare guns to cars. In the world we live in, cars are an essential means of transport, commerce and human interaction. Guns are not. Remove them and we would not be poorer off culturally or interpersonally.<br /> <br /> I do not believe you cannot turn technology back and I do not suggest returning to bows and arrows. But I do believe arms should as a general rule be confined to the armed Forces and Police. There is much about the UK I dislike but its attitude to guns, knives ( and Capital Punishment) is far saner than the USA's.<br /> <br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-65199075761216400002012-10-29T10:10:11.150-04:002012-10-29T10:10:11.150-04:00I'd love to hear Jeremy talk about why he chos...I'd love to hear Jeremy talk about why he chose to leave the UK for a rebellious colony full of ruffians. I'd use the word hooligan but those are more often British it seems. (That's my attempt at a joke.) Surely Jeremy knew where and why he was coming. For opportunity I'm guessing? Maybe those opportunities and our fleeting ideals of liberty are tied? Is one worth the other? If not, why not stay in the UK? Are the cafes and theaters of NYC worth so much? Isn’t disarmed French culture more appealing?<br /><br />Jeremy's migration and actions remind me of the influx of Californians to Arizona a couple decades ago. Cheap, open and clean Arizona was a real draw to the taxed and harried Californians. Looking now the Californians have brought their problems with them. With only the best of intentions of course so hopes Jeremy?<br /><br />The UK banned guns. Their National Health Service is being forced by reality to flirt with privatization. Private property rights are thin (Google "uk squatting gypsies") and effective self defense is nigh illegal. They should be near utopia soon, eh?<br /><br />But like the escaping Californians we have Brits fleeing the UK and Jews fleeing France. I'll admit it's a universal pattern. Californians enter a low tax locale then demand services until high taxes and congestion return. Muslims come the the west then seek to establish sharia. Leftist social democrat types come here unable to not bring their failed states along. If the bitter clingers should welcome the Progressives why not sharia. Strange bedfellows those groups are!<br /><br />Why do people feel a need to do that? Why the apparent lack of self awareness? Those are interesting topics to which maybe Jeremy could apply his learning. I think it'd make for a good drasha or two given Jeremy has rich experience on the perspective. Please?chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-36802133670175556732012-10-29T10:08:26.453-04:002012-10-29T10:08:26.453-04:00Most. Many. We'll soon be at "for the chi...Most. Many. We'll soon be at "for the children."<br /><br />This is a complicated issue. There are enough rigorous, peer reviewed studies in place that policy discussion here borders on silly. University of Chicago economist John Lott stepped into this subject years ago and while his reputation is fairly destroyed, his research stands. Likewise, reputations are taking hits on this venue. It’s honest, but less than a good thing.<br /><br />Jeremy's post is an emotional screed. Defined terms like "assault weapons"are used incorrectly, etc. I think it's a mistake to argue this polarizing issue. It breaks down to agree or disagree based on our respective backgrounds and biases. On Jeremy's side it seems guns are bad or maybe scary and the state is sought to provide communal needs of her subjects. On the other side are the same Americans who also so frustrated Obama by clinging bitterly to their religion and guns. For them guns are merely tools and their God given rights remain intact. <br /><br />Instead of guns Jeremy's subject could easily be that we shouldn't be allowed cars capable of exceeding a certain speed or fuel capacities. Or maybe that we should restrict bottled water except maybe to facilitate the meetings of our politicians and social betters.<br /><br />The thing I’ve learned from silently reading Jeremy’s posts over the years (has it been over a decade?) is to examine my biases and become more open-minded and tolerant of other opinions. It’s surprising that Jeremy so glaringly displays his bias and blind spots. I’m seeing less of an open, alternative take on Torah than a socially liberal, urban-centric view of the world where Green concerns about plastic bottles and landfills are voiced over tiny tables while enjoying organic tomatoes hauled in by diesel trucks. And lets not forget those scary guns. I’m disappointed.chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-70905524451584371602012-10-28T19:29:52.938-04:002012-10-28T19:29:52.938-04:00Shoshi, the word "most" in my comment th...Shoshi, the word "most" in my comment that you quoted should have been "many".Rabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-47143915323406512942012-10-28T16:47:20.660-04:002012-10-28T16:47:20.660-04:00Why do you write:
"Most deaths in the UK are...Why do you write:<br /><br />"Most deaths in the UK are from criminals killing criminals, not innocents. But most of the deaths in the USA are from family quarrels and accidents in the home where firearms are too easily accessible not properly stored."<br /><br />Your commenter, above, pointed out that "75% of the victims are persons with a criminal record" and "gun violence is in many ways an inter-criminal problem, and perhaps in no small part a gang related problem". And In your own blog post you mentioned that "gang warfare" first among the most common gun deaths (even though suicides are apparently the most common).<br /><br /><br /><br />Shoshinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-49484800280711049392012-10-28T16:33:27.588-04:002012-10-28T16:33:27.588-04:00Chaim:
I found the JPFO clip to be dishonest, che...Chaim:<br /><br />I found the JPFO clip to be dishonest, cheap and fallacious.<br /><br />Self Defence of course is a Jewish value but to bring the Holocaust into it as if had Jews been handed out rifles or even Uzzis they could have stood up to the might of the Nazi war machine is as idiotic as the suggestion that in the USA any group could seriously threaten the lives of any other minority now. Does he really believe that the answer is to give eveyone a gun and then Latinos and Blacks could defend each other against the other in an orgy of murder or perhaps turn on Jews? <br /><br />I would argue as with mainstream Rabbinic Judaism that it was precisely the prolifertion of armed Jewish militarists that the led to the catastrophic destruction of the Jewish State two thousand years ago.<br /><br />Halachic Judaism would argue that it is the State's respondsibility to ensure Law and Order and the specific zealotry of Pinchas was an exception not a rule. Only when Law and Order has broken down completely does one take the law into ones own hand. This is not happenning currently in the USA.<br /><br />JeremyRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-36382687578531330132012-10-28T16:32:36.734-04:002012-10-28T16:32:36.734-04:00Michael:
As you say:
"The above has nothing...Michael:<br /><br />As you say:<br /><br />"The above has nothing whatsoever to do with enforcing proper regulations regarding gun ownership - proper filtering, regulation, removal, etc., nor the baleful but realistic concept that bad individuals will do bad things no matter what; but it does explain the unique position a "well regulated militia" occupies in America that exactly, and properly, is the antipode to the only large scale, long standing, successful separation from a crushing superpower in history."<br /><br />And that is my point. Regulations should legislated and enforced. They are not at present for all the wrong motives.<br /><br />It is Governments responsibility to ensure that the citizens abide by its laws. In general this is done in the USA. If it were to break down completely that would be another matter. One of the reasons why it is good to live in the USA is precisely because neither does Government fear the People not People the Government.<br /> <br />The interesting issue is the balance of influence between the Constitution, the Supreme Court and the populace that interact in a subtle process of constant change and modification within a loose framework. That's also how it works in practice in Judaism though few will admit it.<br /> <br />With all respect to De Tocqueville I do not believe there is such a thing as an American soul ( tell me pray what soul is anyway, there are so many different interpretations). Neither then, with fewer minorities not now with far more. There are pressure groups and religions with their own souls but they are forced to find ways of accommodating each other because the Constitution requires it. Dina De Malchuta. <br /> <br />Similarly in Judaism. There is no common 'soul' or 'mood' between a Hassid, a Litvak, a Kabbalist, a Sephardi Tahor and a Yekke. It is the Halacha, the constitution, to binds them together.<br /> <br />There, about three different issues. Each one merits an essay on its own.<br /> <br />JeremyRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-69882469668653622622012-10-28T16:28:02.373-04:002012-10-28T16:28:02.373-04:00Anonymous:
The UK has changed too under pressure ...Anonymous:<br /><br />The UK has changed too under pressure and now there are police units that are armed even though 95% of the police are not. I agree that the law on self defense has gone too far in protecting criminals but it is being revised and a recent judgment supported the home owner against the intruder. <br /> <br />Neither has it stopped criminals, nothing can, short of locking them up. Most criminal deaths in the UK are from criminals killing criminals, not innocents. But most of the deaths in the USA are from family quarrels and accidents in the home where firearms are too easily accessible not properly stored. <br /> <br />But its the national mood that exerts pressure. In the UK it is solidly anti gun ( except for hunting ). In the USA it is solidly pro and look at where more people get killed. QED.<br /><br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-48415427519537248972012-10-28T11:22:52.151-04:002012-10-28T11:22:52.151-04:00#3 it's easy to ban guns in England? Nope. The...#3 it's easy to ban guns in England? Nope. They did that years ago. Guns are still used by criminals often. Knives are now a big issue. They're banning them too.<br /><br />The odd part is self-defense is illegal in the UK. So maybe up to half of assaults in the UK are criminals (victims/aggressors?) fighting (back). It's insanity. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-48727052516905666172012-10-28T09:09:58.607-04:002012-10-28T09:09:58.607-04:00Jeremy -
In a very rare, but respectful scenario,...Jeremy -<br /><br />In a very rare, but respectful scenario, I, too disagree with your stance on guns in the USA, and, take a position not too unlike that of Chaim. However, I would remind all of us of two other, overarching concepts, one of which I believe Chaim alluded to, if not spelled out:<br /><br />1 - While not restricted to Jews per se, most intra-national, and certainly all trans-national genocides begin with disarming the victim(s).<br /><br />2 - Jefferson (yes, one of my heroes) had many memorable quotes and quips. One of them: "Where the government fears the people, there is Liberty. Where the people fear the government there is Tyranny." Whether or not you believe that true philosophic differences regarding the nature of Man and Government, or mere crass mercantilism, or a mixture of both, caused the only successful long-standing revolution against a superpower in history; its embryonic casting in iron has forever coloured Americas and Americans approach to controlling power, and where the seat of that power rests. Since many DEFINE the singular distinguishing characteristics of a sovereign government that reliably differentiates it from any other construct as "The only organ in any given arena with a [presupposed / de facto] legal monopoly on arrest, detainment, imprisonment, lethal force, capital punishment, and establishment of currency", then it makes sense that Americans would have also instituted a grass roots, hopefully unnecessary, but certainly intellectually effective, counterbalance to the essence of the definition of government. If it WASN'T so potent a potential if not actual antidote - - - - then government apparatchiks potentially subject to its wrath would not be referencing it so frequently.<br /><br />The above has nothing whatsoever to do with enforcing proper regulations regarding gun ownership - proper filtering, regulation, removal, etc., nor the baleful but realistic concept that bad individuals will do bad things no matter what; but it does explain the unique position a "well regulated militia" occupies in America that exactly, and properly, is the antipode to the only large scale, long standing, successful separation from a crushing superpower in history.<br /><br />There IS such a thing as the American Soul. DeToquevulle not only described it well, but also presaged it's demise as we all become pablum force fed mutally saprophytic drones of an all confiscatory State that mimicks Old Europe instead of staying true to American Principles. And that Soul includes gun ownership.<br /><br />Shavua TovMichael Hnoreply@blogger.com