tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post3072525563566726720..comments2023-06-21T10:52:34.013-04:00Comments on Jeremy Rosen's Blog: ShabbatAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17043970242427877089noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-75400633356283482122014-02-27T11:44:20.587-05:002014-02-27T11:44:20.587-05:00Mathew
Please don't be done. I'd love to...Mathew<br /> <br />Please don't be done. I'd love to continue this and please dont mind other posts.<br /><br />My only criticism was the cynical tone, that I know you are so good at and people love you for it. When it is directed at something I care about of course I will react as would you.<br /> <br />You question my statistics that Orthodoxy is on the rise. Here is a brief off the cuff selection of references to the significant rise of Ultra Orthodoxy , in the UK, in the USA and around the Jewish world.<br /><br /> http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/news-opinion/united-states/pew-survey-u-s-jewish-intermarriage-rate-rises-to-58-percent#ixzz2uWb0637h<br /><br />As with other studies, the Pew study found that the Orthodox share of the American Jewish population is likely to grow because Orthodox Jews tend to be younger and have larger families than Jews generally. While past surveys showed about half of respondents raised as Orthodox were no longer Orthodox, the Orthodox retention rate appears to be improving, with just a 17 percent falloff among 18- to 29-year-olds.<br /><br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7411877.stm<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11021030<br /> <br />Due diligance will reveal much more but of course living outside the North London ghettos you will not notice it. This phenomenon is manifest in all religions at the moment; a drift towards fundamentalism away from the vapid uninspiring insipid versions. And I suggest the reason is that if people are going to choose a religious way of life they will want something substantial, significant and passionate.<br /> <br />The flip side of course is a greater degree of fundamentalism, inwardlooking socialization and as Norman Lebrecht describes it "Monotheistic, Monolithic and Monochromatic." I dissociate myself from that. What is more I strongly object all religious authority that puts power, control and insularity over universal humanity and ethics. And I detest religious compulsion ( although I could be accused of doing that as headmater but shools are different only in the sense that to achieve knowledge of anything one usually needs some measure of discipline).<br /> <br />When I was young there were very few like minded Jews, orthodox but intellectually alive for me to mix with at school, university and beyond. Nowadays in London my children and grandchildren have an enormous pool of professional, educated articulate thinking orthodox families to socialize with. I assure you there has been a sea change in Anglo Jewry.<br /> <br />At the same time there are negative aspects which I am alive to and make a point of criticising.<br /> <br />My father always argued that significant Jewish identity and continuity required a pasionate commitment to Jewish life and Jewish knowledge and he has been proved right. The majority of Jews without such tools are indeed disappearing. But the minority who are involved are staging an unbelieable come back. And just as the response to anti Semitism has become more pro-active so too is the reaction to those who claim that living an orthodox life is medieval, primitive and silly. Quite the contrary it has even more to offer as the wider society struggles to find its balance.<br /> <br />I really do value your thoughts and hope you will be prepared to continue the discussion.<br /><br />JeremyRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-72506897538997341882014-02-27T02:35:02.392-05:002014-02-27T02:35:02.392-05:00Dear Jeremy,
Three final points and I'm done.
...Dear Jeremy,<br />Three final points and I'm done.<br />1. I had hoped that this talk might have been an opportunity for constructive dialogue between those who have a fixed view of the world and those of us who are certain of nothing and strive to find answers. The above exchange, and Mr Bernstein's contribution in particular, does not encourage me to try again.<br /><br />2. I'm afraid that if your main reading of the demographics of Diaspora Jewry is "a resurgence of Orthodoxy" we may be seeing different statistics.<br /><br />3. For the record, I adore baseball. <br /><br />Best, MatthewMatthew Engelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-86359938099185838942014-02-25T09:05:03.733-05:002014-02-25T09:05:03.733-05:00Well said and beautifully written. Thank you David...Well said and beautifully written. Thank you David.Rabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-31206333890557658032014-02-25T04:39:31.572-05:002014-02-25T04:39:31.572-05:00Somewhere embedded in Mathew’s thought was the lin...Somewhere embedded in Mathew’s thought was the line that an “Outsider shouldn’t make simple assumptions in complex places” but yet Mathew seems totally comfortable to assume why G-d made the Sabbath. The notion that the Sabbath was made as the first trade union is perhaps something I would have expected the host of the show, David Baddiel to say, after all he is a comedian. I think that the story of the Island that Mathew visited, has an integral lesson to teach us regarding assimilation. Once the ship had decided to sail on the Sunday it paved way for all of the Island to follow suit, hence the Island by making the “convenient” exception to the rule, lost the rule entirely. The overall problem with Mathew’s thought, is that it has the audacity to expect G-d to have to conform to the way that the western world treats commerce on the weekend. There is an intrinsic healthy reason for having the day off from the world once a week, In the same way that there is a healthy value to eating chicken soup even if it is not Kosher but the point that Mathew missed is that G-d and Religion don’t come second place to Upper Middle Class Brits who want to combine their atheism with nostalgia, it is designed for those who want spirituality. The last poet in Jerusalem https://www.blogger.com/profile/15861502221873040065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-84689146113978056262014-02-24T10:54:32.732-05:002014-02-24T10:54:32.732-05:00David
In the blog itself there is a link to the En...David<br />In the blog itself there is a link to the Engel interview where it says "a recent BBC talk" (click on those words in the blog post above).<br />All the best.<br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-85907092758297282132014-02-23T15:45:09.621-05:002014-02-23T15:45:09.621-05:00Please can you post a link to Mathew's intervi...Please can you post a link to Mathew's interview/article.The last poet in Jerusalem https://www.blogger.com/profile/15861502221873040065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-31341862680630552642014-02-23T13:38:26.250-05:002014-02-23T13:38:26.250-05:00David,
Great to hear from you and thank you.
Yes...David,<br /><br />Great to hear from you and thank you.<br /><br />Yes, indeed we are, to adapt Dickens, "The best of friends and the worst of enemies." <br /><br />Warmest regards<br />JRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-66557684523784301832014-02-23T13:37:32.397-05:002014-02-23T13:37:32.397-05:00Matthew,
I really do admire you for all you have ...Matthew,<br /><br />I really do admire you for all you have achieved and I thank you most sincerely for the kind words you expressed about me prior to my blog. But I am sorry you couldn't take a dose of your own medicine! Of course I was being flippnat and silly about cricket, just as you were about an Orthodox Shabbat. I was only trying to make a similar point to yours about there being something of value beneath the apparent superficiality. Insn't that sauce for the gander?<br /><br />I suffered like you from the restrictions of my youth, on not being able to watch Manchester United on a Shabbat afternoon. And because my father had the foresight to despatch me off to Yeshivah I was fortunate enough to experience a more positive experience than simply restrictions.<br /><br />The fact is that the Orthdoxy you claim is disappearing is resurgent around the world, to everyone's surprise, precisely because it offers a passionate and in depth counter balance to excessive self indulgence that appeals to some, certainly not the majority. There's still a lot I dislike about established religions and I despise religious authority of every kind. But thats no different to loving cricket and still hating the MCC.<br /><br />I welcome criticism of everything including relgion. You have me as wrong as you think I have you. I do respect MYOBism.<br /><br />Warmest regards and if you are ever in New York please get in touch. I am no fan of baseball.<br /><br />JeremyRabbi Jeremy Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723608669485173271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-87970541126174882722014-02-23T09:15:19.808-05:002014-02-23T09:15:19.808-05:00I was very disappointed, if I may use a headmaster...I was very disappointed, if I may use a headmasterly word, that someone I have liked and admired for half a century now should have responded so negatively to my Radio 4 talk. <br /><br />What I was trying to do, for a broad and largely irreligious audience, was to applaud the concept of the strict Jewish and Presbyterian Sabbath and to urge people to adapt the principles to the realities of their lives.<br /><br />Back comes the response. And once it’s stripped of dubious assumptions, ad hominen arguments and irrelevant guff about cricket, it comes down to this: the Sabbath is exactly what we say it is; don’t argue; don’t dare think about it.<br /><br />And of course most people don’t. Hence the collapse of the Sabbath. Hence the terrifying demographic trends for Jewry in the Diaspora. Hence the fact that I have dozens of Jewish friends, acquaintances and colleagues – sparky, intelligent, thoughtful people - who long ago concluded that Judaism has nothing to offer them. Certainly not the right to be taken seriously.<br />Matthew Engelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6141014.post-48796176895035899762014-02-21T15:53:41.081-05:002014-02-21T15:53:41.081-05:00This is a great article Rabbi Rosen. In my opinion...This is a great article Rabbi Rosen. In my opinion, the world of instant gratification will spell the end for cricket. How will we watch the same game for 5 days when we can’t even concentrate for 5 minutes?! It’s amazing how it is always a Jew who bashes traditional Judaism just as it is always an Israeli who bashes Israel. The last poet in Jerusalem https://www.blogger.com/profile/15861502221873040065noreply@blogger.com